Kamala Harris for President: Cannabis Reform and Political Shifts with David Culver

Breaking news on this episode of the Cannabis Man Podcast, host Don Kleppin returns from paternity leave to discuss the bombshell announcement from President Biden over the weekend, revealing his withdrawal from the election and his endorsement of Vice President Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee. Don delves into what this means for the cannabis community and the broader political landscape.

In our News Joint Wrap, we cover:

• Illinois' lowest monthly medical cannabis sales since adult-use legalization in January 2020.
• Governor JB Pritzker celebrating Illinois reaching $1 billion in cannabis sales and the milestone of the 100th social equity cannabis licensee, positioning Illinois as a leader in the U.S. cannabis market.
• Upcoming events like the Illinois Craft Showcase in September and this week's Black CannaBiz Expo and Conference in downtown Chicago.

This week's product highlight features Kanha's fast-acting FX Energy gummies, where Don shares his insights and review of this innovative edible.

The episode's highlight is a deep dive with David Culver, Senior Vice President of Public Affairs at the U.S. Cannabis Council. David shares his perspective on the exciting political developments, Vice President Harris's strong pro-cannabis stance, and the anticipated changes in cannabis policy. They also discuss the timeline for rescheduling cannabis from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3, following the end of the Public Comment period, and the potential impacts, including the creation of fifty thousand jobs by 2030.

Tune in for a comprehensive discussion on these significant updates and what they mean for the future of cannabis. Remember to text your thoughts or questions into the show, rate and review us on your podcast platform, and take advantage of our special advertising rates!

Transcript

0:22
of this land mix it all with laughter and a Sprinkle of his side canab this
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man can [Music] man Canabis man spreading news and joy
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across the land diving deep into the growing green Canabis man we're Ro King
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o oh
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yeah oh yeah oh
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yeah oh [Music]
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Canabis man spreading news and joy across the land diving deep into the
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growing green cannabis man they're rocking ooh oh yeah
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yeah ooh yeah it feels good to be back welcome to the Cannabis man podcast
1:38
thank you so much for clicking on the show I'm your host Don kleppen and if this is your first time here welcome it's a show where we're trying to take a
1:44
journalistic look at all things cannabis as everything is changing in the United States and around the world in different
1:50
countries seemingly day by day in the legal cannabis markets uh there is always a lot to talk about and I love
1:56
bringing conversations to you with people in the space whether those are entrepreneurs business owners creating
2:03
new goods and services if they are policy leaders and people who are in the political space keeping track on the
2:09
timelines for some of these initiatives to legalize cannabis and end the prohibition such as my guest today my
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friend David Culver of the US cannabis Council who's here to talk about exactly that and the rescheduling timeline that
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we are in the midst of or it could be people who are doctors researchers trying to answer some of these questions
2:29
that we still have about cannabis anybody who is in the space I like talking to and I love bringing those
2:34
conversations to you and I also love hearing from you you can always text into the show by scrolling down and
2:39
clicking on that link in the description notes follow the show at cman podcast on X and Instagram and do me a favor leave
2:46
a rating or review if you haven't already that's the way that these podcast platforms kind of uh know how to
2:52
distinguish the shows that are worth showing off to people is ratings and reviews from listeners like you so if
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you haven't already I'd really appreciate it if you could do do that for me and if you want to become a patron and support the show on patreon
3:03
you can scroll further down in the description and click on the support the show link there I know you've already
3:08
likely heard the news President Biden deciding to withdraw from the presidential race and endorse his vice
3:14
president Kamala Harris for the Democratic nomination that's big for a lot of reasons and certainly concerning
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cannabis and the timeline for rescheduling down to schedule three from schedule one under the Controlled
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Substances Act and the public comment portion of this rescheduling process just wrapped up yesterday from when I'm
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recording this so I thought who better to talk with this news about than my friend at the US cannabis Council David
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Culver I'll bring you that interview a little later in the show I've also got some products to tell you about some
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local news around Illinois and some events coming up as well as a noteworthy National article that I'm looking
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forward to sharing with you all on this episode of the Cannabis man podcast here we go
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[Music]
4:26
this is Tommy Chong and you're listening to the cannibis
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broadcast and it has been a little while I took a bit of a break if you have missed the last few episodes my daughter
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Violet was born in April and I took the month of July off as my wife Gretchen
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returned to work so that I could help ease that transition uh and as such I've kind of been uh just on a little bit of
4:53
an unplug session which has been nice but I have not been able to escape the news what a cycle it's been politics
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cannabis wise there has been so much going on it's just been crazy and I felt
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compelled to jump back on the mic and spend some time with you so thanks for joining me here thanks for clicking it
5:11
is good to be back and I would like to start by uh sharing with you the news joint wrap this is a wrap up of news
5:19
stories relating to cannabis in or around Illinois and it's all brought to you by illino newsj joint.com think of
5:25
it as the joint you can hit for all your Illinois Cannabis News and reviews and let me starts uh with an article from
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earlier this month talking about the low medical cannabis sales numbers they've
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dropped to a 4year low according to Jason Brown here the Department of Public Health relayed its June medical
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cannabis sales totals earlier in July they dropped to 23,100
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5,926 that would make for the lowest monthly sales total since before Illinois legalized recreational cannabis
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in January of 2020 Jason breaks down the specific sales numbers from dispensaries
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further on in the article another news story worth bringing to your attention Governor JB pritsker touts $1 billion in
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cannabis sales along with social Equity efforts here in Illinois in a press release he said that the state reached
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$1 billion in cannabis retail sales and quote continues to lead social Equity efforts Nationwide this uh marker of a
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billion dollars was passed July 1st it breaks down $850 million in sales of
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adult use cannabis and almost 150 million for medical cannabis sales that relates back to the dynamic I've talked
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about a few times on the show there are definitely and by uh significant factors as you see by those numbers there are
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way fewer medical patients buying cannabis from dispensaries than there are just adult use buyers those include
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people who live in the state who don't have medical cards people who are just passing through from other states or who
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are coming here as cannabis tourists as has been reported widely people from
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States like Wisconsin and Indiana places near Illinois that don't have these legal markets they're coming here and
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they are buying in droves I know they're also going to places like Michigan and I know they're going to other places as
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well including soon Ohio which put out its first batch of legal cannabis
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licenses this week uh just yesterday from when I'm recording this very very exciting news here in the Midwest in
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terms of cannabis movements and then in the press release police pritsker also touted the fact that 100 social Equity
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dispensary licenses have now been given out and those operations are up and running which makes Illinois a leader in
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the social Equity space regarding legal cannabis sales and for my money I think he should be touting that as progress I
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know that not everyone feels great about the prices in Illinois I can't tell you how many times I've rolled my eyes
7:54
combing through internet comments of people making the same joke about Illinois price
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but I've said from the beginning of when I started this podcast prices were going to come down as competition increased
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and there were three years in Illinois between 2020 and 23 which for those of
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you keeping track was just last year just last year those lawsuits were settled and a lot of these social Equity
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licenses were then released to get their operations up and running this competition was tied up in courts for 3
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years that as much as anything else is why Illinois prices were as high as they were but now these other doors are
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opening these competitors are driving prices down but importantly at least
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here in Illinois the quality of our products is still staying High because the incentive for these businesses is
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still here unlike some other states in the country which I've talked about on previous episodes back to the news joint
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WP there are a few events that I thought were worth bringing up here including the Illinois Craft showcase consumption
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event this is happening September mber 7th at Molly's joint in Tilton Illinois
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running noon to 700 p.m. the craft showcase is set to highlight nearly all
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Illinois Craft lenses including Growers and infusers anyone attending you'll
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have the opportunity to meet the new brands representatives and sample some of the best products in Illinois which
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as I was just alluding to is a high bar the first 250 tickets are free but have to be reserved at a link which you can
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find at Illinois newws jooomers in this article which I've shared Below in the
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description notes and one other event I thought you should know about coming up this week is the black Cannabis Expo and
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Conference running July 24th through 26th so Wednesday through Friday of this
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week at the Swiss Hotel in Chicago on East Wacker Drive right next to the WGN
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Radio building I see the Swiss Hotel every time I go into work there great building and they have a wonderful
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restaurant the Palm in there and if you haven't checked them out and you're going to this conference maybe uh take a
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swing over there they got some good drinks and they have some really good food to offer too so definitely worst places that you could kill time between
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the different guests and presentations available at that conference and as always you can find out more information
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about those events and news stories as well as many many more all at illino newjoin
10:19
docomo uh my product of the week strain of the week if you'd like uh today I had
10:24
uh some coffee earlier in the day and I have been pulling on this lovely VAP pen
10:30
from Kana and I'll talk more about that in a different episode but I wanted to Cheers you before I got into my thoughts
10:37
on this other product here cheers it's a sativa pen raspberry Skywalker is the flavor
10:45
and again I'll talk more about that at another time but right now I want to tell you about this right
10:52
here from the lovely people at Kana you may remember I had a conversation with the CEO of Kana Cameron Clark a little
11:00
while back and you can check out that episode I highly recommend it they have uh some really great Insight uh in that
11:07
episode Cameron shares but also the company in general is paying attention to the right things and they talked
11:13
about their special formula that's been triple lab tested for guaranteed quality
11:19
and safety and they are the original creators of the fast acting Nano gummies
11:24
and these kna Bliss gummies are also touted as fast acting they say you can
11:31
feel it in about 15 minutes so I was thrilled when they sent over some of these products that I could try out and
11:37
finally get a taste about all right does this really hit in 15 minutes and after
11:42
having tried these and the ones I'm talking about currently are the energy gummy variety the flavor is Citrus
11:50
Splash and it comes in a green package love their logo love the uh the green on the package I'll share a picture below
11:57
but this energy gummies and I'll talk about the sativa and Inda ones another time because all of these gummies are
12:03
are pretty good but the one I had to tell you about first the version of Kana gummies that I needed to tell you about
12:09
were these energy gummies you can see on the front of the package it's got THC and
12:15
thcv now that's a cannaboid that's starting to get a little bit of Buzz and I've talked about it with some of my
12:20
guests it has some interesting potential that has been shown in terms of the
12:26
appetite suppression space as well as boosting energy which I can tell you now
12:31
from experience these gummies absolutely do there's 10 mg in here so even though
12:38
my tolerance is good I usually expect to feel those and what was so interesting about these is that I definitely felt it
12:44
but it wasn't it was maybe the first cannabis product I've tried where I didn't feel stoned at all and by that I
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mean I didn't feel inhibited in any way mentally or physically I wasn't glued to the couch I wasn't sort of um low
12:59
bandwidth in the old brain you know what I mean where your thoughts are kind of circular or maybe you know not escaping
13:05
a certain low level that's not at all what I experienced here I experienced a nice kick in the pants in the midday
13:12
when I've taken to taking these things normally around one or 2:00 I might have some coffee I might have a sugar-free
13:18
Red Bull if I'm feeling particularly lethargic let's say that happens from time to time so instead I was swapping
13:25
with these energy gummies after I took them for the first time and I I love them I've been taking them like every
13:31
day because I find that that boost of energy with the no cost in terms of
13:37
feeling stoned and and what I mean by cost is you're not limiting yourself in terms of what activities you can do now
13:43
granted I haven't been going to work I've had the month off but you know these gummies allowed me to do things like chores around the house and and
13:50
some projects that I've been working on on the side and just spending time with Violet and stuff it it gave me the
13:55
energy to do that without you know limiting my choices in terms of what I was comfortable doing what I had the
14:02
energy to do these things are great and for very different reasons than some
14:07
cannabis consumables that I've tried in the past and most of them I'll say these are kind of in a different Lane I found
14:15
anyway and I love it if you give them a try and tell me what you think you can text the uh Link in the description notes but these Kaa k
14:23
n gummies uh I'm going to talk about the other varieties and that raspberry
14:28
Skywalker vape pen at another time I'm going to share those reviews on future episodes as well as in the inaugural
14:35
edition of a news letter that I have coming out I'll talk more about that on the next episode but for right now I
14:42
just wanted you to know that I have been loving these Kana Bliss gummies and you
14:47
can find out more by following them on Instagram at K Ka NH ha Bliss on
14:53
Instagram or kab bliss.com listener I had few things that I wanted to share
15:00
with you it's obviously been a little bit of a while uh since I had a new episode out and there's been a ton of
15:06
news over the last three or four weeks but uh this past weekend there was some
15:11
some major news regarding President Biden and his decision to bow out of the
15:17
presidential race and endorse his vice president kamla Harris who is now the
15:23
Democratic nominee uh presumptively but that's the the way that I think we can all be comfortable running head with
15:29
that so now it's a race between Donald Trump and kamla Harris for the presidency and obviously with the ending
15:36
of the public comment period uh for the DEA considering the rescheduling of cannabis ending yesterday from when I'm
15:43
recording this um there's a lot to consider with cannabis with regard to cannabis over these next few months and
15:50
heading up to the presidential election and thereafter and so I wanted to speak
15:56
with an expert not only in the field of cannabis but DC politics and someone who
16:01
has their ear to the ground over there to talk a little about what's expected in regard to how Kamala Harris feels
16:07
about cannabis and what her past record speaks to and I couldn't think of anyone better than the senior vice president of
16:13
public affairs at the US cannabis Council David Culver welcome back David thank you so much for having me great to
16:19
be with you again hey my pleasure man I always appreciate you coming on and you do I feel like you really are somebody
16:24
who's been in uh the political space for a while you do have you are plugged in you know what's going on and I love
16:30
talking with you about politics as cannabis certainly but just kind of what the co what the climate is uh in the
16:37
nation's capital and so you know given that the big news of the week is that
16:43
Joe Biden is out and kamla Harris is now uh presumably I'm not sure that she's
16:49
spoken uh to accept it yet but we all you know the president's endorsed her the mo other major Democrats have
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endorsed her so let's start just by talking about kamla Harris and what her
17:02
policies or at least what her feelings that you think or can gather from her past about cannabis are and what we can
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expect in this space uh in the next few months here well what what a week is exactly right and uh I'll even say what
17:15
a month I I think it's been some of the most uh interesting politics over the last four weeks that I I probably have
17:22
ever witnessed in my lifetime and you're right I've been at this for a long time uh but in terms of uh the the new
17:29
Democratic nominee of Vice President Harris um uh you know the the Cannabis
17:34
industry generally and myself included is is very excited about her uh her candidacy uh and I also think that you
17:41
know we can talk about the politics of this race but even with all the momentum
17:46
that President Trump has has gained over the last few weeks and I still think he has a significant amount of momentum I
17:53
do think there's a number of things that we will see uh with vice president Harris nominee Harris uh over the next
17:59
uh month that uh will help uh to bolster her candidacy as well so any case it's
18:05
an exciting time and I think that she's uh going to be very very good for uh the
18:10
Canabis industry on this stump uh over the next uh few months and certainly has a legitimate chance of winning the
18:17
entire election yeah I I totally agree with you and I'm glad you put it that way because I mean former president
18:22
Trump did really gather a lot of momentum in these last few weeks I mean there was the assassination attempt
18:29
right before the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee so it just sort of you know leaned in such a way those
18:35
events where you know the the very week after that assassination attempt um you
18:41
know at which obviously you know he he survived and he was hit in the ear but the injury is very you know pretty
18:47
superficial I would say compared to what it could have been and of course you know I just want to put out there that
18:52
whoever you know it is that you support whatever policies you're into I definitely don't want to see any
18:58
president candidates getting shot at or or Senate candidates or you know house members anybody running for office um
19:05
that's just not any kind of way to to have a civilized discourse and all that but David as you mentioned that those
19:12
events along with you know the other ways that that Trump has always been pretty good at gaining momentum using
19:18
social media using you know news events and talking about things that people are thinking about he's he's good at
19:24
Gathering momentum for himself that way and he has certainly done that but then then this past weekend Joe Biden
19:30
announcing that he's going to step aside and then endorsing kamla Harris the VP
19:35
uh for the seat um it is it's just an incredible uh Confluence of events just
19:41
one after the next so it has been absolutely crazy but you know you you say that you're excited about kamla
19:47
Harris and I and I've heard from the you know other members of the Cannabis community that they are very uh bullish
19:54
on her as well that they think that things just got better for Canabis on
19:59
the Democratic side of the ticket what is it about you know what she's done in the past maybe or her record about
20:06
cannabis so far that maybe speaks to some of this excitement people are feeling yeah I think I think she's been on a journey uh in terms of cannabis
20:13
reform like many of us have been including myself and you know she's a a former prosecutor uh and I think she was
20:19
able to to see firsthand uh the impact that the War on Drugs was having on
20:25
individuals and and communities uh in the state where she was working um I think that her journey in the
20:30
Senate progressed significantly she was a lead co-sponsor of a comprehensive
20:36
reform measure uh called the mo act which still exists on the house side um
20:42
and uh she also engaged on a number of other pieces of legislation that were cannabis reform specific where she added
20:48
her name as a as a co-sponsor you know inside the the White House as vice president uh she continues to support
20:55
what President Biden has been advocating for uh on cannabis reform and uh she
21:00
also has pressed uh on both HHS and the health and human services and also the
21:06
Department of Justice to expedite the uh the rescheduling decision so um I think
21:11
if you look back at U where uh you look back at her journey and you look back at
21:17
President Biden's Journey they're both from different generations and President Biden comes at this from a very very
21:24
different angle than uh president or sorry the vice president does he's had his own Journey on cannabis reform which
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I think really uh began 2019 2020 uh for for President Biden and the way I'm
21:37
thinking about this is that he got the ball rolling and then if she ultimately
21:42
is elected uh she's going to be able to take the ball and and run with it even further than President Biden was
21:48
comfortable doing the other thing to mention which I think is is another yet another reason why the markets reacted
21:55
reacted so positively yesterday and also why the industry sources that you're speaking to are so keen on her candidacy
22:03
is that this is going to be a very simple that the fact that she is being nominated with her background on
22:10
cannabis reform she's going to be the most uh cannabis friendly presidential candidate that we've ever had in US
22:16
history and I think this is probably also going to be the last time that
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certainly on the Democratic uh side that there is a candidate that is not uh for full full-blown legalization uh and I do
22:29
think that we're going to see a softening of the position on the Republican side as well uh going forward
22:36
wow that is really cool to hear David I mean I I you're to your points as well I
22:41
mean you're you're absolutely right I I did see that Evolution uh in the Senate of of Vice President Harris I remember
22:48
the Moore act you know that was exciting and you know just just briefly to touch on you know President Biden's Journey
22:55
with cannabis and such I I've talked about on the show for how I respect him
23:01
so much as a person because I I remember talking one time about how many
23:06
80-year-olds do you know that would change their stance on an issue as
23:12
fundamental to somebody's identity as maybe like drug policy or uh the the value of cannabis uh in terms of what it
23:19
can do to a quality of somebody's life and and President Biden in his own home with with his son Hunter it's like
23:24
there's been a very public story unraveling I suppose of of his own history with with substance use and so I
23:32
respect Biden a lot for changing his mind as you kind of mentioned 2019 2020
23:39
really uh evolving on his stance about it but that highlights the distinction
23:44
between him and where he came from versus Vice President Harris who as you said in the Senate as her time as a
23:51
prosecutor in California she has been on the front lines of of litigating some of
23:56
these issues regarding so social justice uh and and how it relates to to the cannabis laws uh and the federal
24:03
prohibition of cannabis and all these things so you can kind of see just on the surface there where they come from
24:10
uh you can kind of see already that Harris would be a lot friendlier toward cannabis and you you mentioned David
24:16
before about the rescheduling I do want to get to that because we're recording this July 23rd the day after the public
24:23
comment period ended and I was able to get my comment in I hope you were too listener but before we get to that you
24:29
you also mention this softening of the the Viewpoint toward cannabis on the Republican side you think this is the
24:35
last presidential election where there won't be a uh PR
24:42
legalization candidate on the ticket and I'm curious how you know this also
24:47
relates to the Republican VP nominee JD Vance um how where does he stand on
24:53
cannabis if you know it all and this softening that you're kind of thinking of what is that look like in terms of
24:59
the candidates that we'll see in this election and then going forward well just to just to be clear you know the
25:06
comment I was I was making is that I do think that um this is in a historic moment with um vice president Harris
25:13
that that we will have on the Democratic ticket a a pro cannabis reform uh
25:19
candidate a candidate that uh is has advocated and will continue to advocate for cannabis to be removed from schedule
25:26
and for the War on Drugs to formally end so that unto itself is is very uh
25:32
historic and I think that the next presidential cycle I think it's fair to
25:37
say that it is the last time uh President Biden was probably the last candidate on the Democratic ticket that
25:43
we will ever see uh that does not advocate for a full descheduling of cannabis got and ending the War on Drugs
25:51
but I do think that on the Republican side we're going to see a significant softening on the position there and
25:57
while they may not come out in full favor of a descheduling cannabis I do think that there's going to be a more
26:04
nuanced position that that that takes a middle Approach at during the next presidential cycle simply because the
26:11
numbers are just too good and they get better and better for cannabis reformers
26:16
uh with Republicans every year so whether it's looking at cannabis uh
26:21
medical cannabis and support for that across the country those numbers are are pulling in the 70s and even 80s um and
26:29
adult youth now is pulling uh very highly uh with Republicans especially those that are under 40 so you know as
26:37
folks get get older uh and as the older generation moves on uh you're I think
26:42
going to see more and more support um in terms of JD Vance we don't know a lot
26:47
about his feelings on on cannabis with the exception of the fact that he dealt with substance abuse at home um he has
26:55
been against uh the the safe banking act which you and I have talked about on your show previously yeah uh he has also
27:02
been against adult use uh in the state of Ohio he's been very vocal on that but
27:07
uh he has kind of qualified all that by saying that he is still very much in favor of states rights which is the
27:13
approach that we currently have um with with cannabis reform but you know again he's he's obviously important he's on
27:19
the ticket uh but I do think that there are others in the Republican party uh
27:25
significant numbers in the Republican party that that they're position is going to change and you know I know you
27:30
want to talk about rescheduling as well but when and if cannabis has moved from
27:36
schedule one down to schedule three it's going to be sitting next to Tylenol with Codine versus heroin and so I think a
27:43
lot of conservative uh policy makers that have been uncomfortable working on cannabis reform issues are actually
27:49
going to be uh much more comfortable going forward and final thing I'll say um is just back to your opening comment
27:57
about President Biden um I I think it I think you hit the nail on the head um he
28:03
has has watched substance abuse at home uh he has spent decades um legislating
28:10
on drug policy and um often in a way that was very much against what US
28:18
Canabis Council advocates for uh but I do think that he took the time to listen uh during the 2020 election cycle and uh
28:25
he was convinced that he needed to change his approach and he did and for someone as at his age um you know and
28:32
given his personal background and his background as a legislator I think that was probably hard to do but he did it
28:39
because he felt that it was the right thing to do and like I said he started the ball rolling uh on uh historic
28:46
cannabis reforms in October of 2022 and um I just cannot uh say enough good
28:52
things about what he's done and how much respect I have and my colleagues have uh for what President Biden has done well
28:58
said David cuz I feel that exact same way and and you know I I felt that way a few times in this presidency and perhaps
29:05
never more so than when he announced he was stepping aside uh and not seeking uh
29:10
the nomination of the democratic party I mean I just think that there there's so much that that reveals a lot about
29:17
somebody's character especially when you're in an office as powerful as the President of the United States and there
29:22
are people uh and I will say just my personal opinion somebody on the other side of the ticket who you know once
29:28
they get in that office they'll do anything they can to stay there meanwhile the guy who was there and had
29:34
the nomination and you know it was totally his choice whether to stay or go he decided it was better for the country
29:41
Biden did to step aside and I just cannot say enough about how much I respect that decision because I know how
29:47
difficult it must be for somebody and then you know to to that point about um JD Vance and substance abuse at home I
29:53
didn't know that but we know that um Ohio has just partially um gone forward
30:00
with its legalization of cannabis at least uh in in certain parts of that state it's very limited but I know that
30:07
Ohio is starting down this path and we know that JD Vance has already changed his mind about President Trump as a as a
30:14
candidate so maybe he'll change his mind about um you know what's right for states to do about cannabis he very he
30:20
very well may and I I just I want to make sure that I'm I'm very clear with your audience that this this discussion
30:27
thus far has been very skewed towards the Democratic nominee and and I am very excited about her as a nominee so I I
30:33
want to be clear about that but I also want to be clear that those that are cannabis reformers we are eager to talk
30:40
to uh any elected official whether it's a Republican or Democrat uh we would love to work with uh president Trump um
30:47
if he's elected or as a candidate uh we we definitely tried while he was president and we uh tried going into the
30:53
last election cycle and that door is always open for us so any elected official that um is is still on the
31:01
fence on cannabis reform or uncomfortable with cannabis reform uh we'd like to have a conversation with
31:07
them and try to work with them and even if it's to find an area of Reform that is small but something that they're
31:12
comfortable doing so I I just want to be very clear that I don't think cannabis is a is a partisan issue in any way
31:19
shape or form uh and it becomes less and less partisan every day and certainly will if cannabis has moved down to Civ
31:25
totally yeah and thanks for clarifying I know that that's true of you guys I know that you know your your whole goal with
31:32
the uscc is to advance cannabis and and get it out of its prohibited state
31:38
currently with social equity and the expungement of criminal records High ethical standards and a safe and
31:43
responsible cannabis industry I know that you guys are are really focused on those and I know that you don't care
31:49
about you know which party you're talking to it's the elected officials that you're trying to change the minds of regardless of their affiliation and
31:56
whatnot and I really appreciate that about the work you guys are doing and and on that note we've been talking a
32:01
little you know just around the rescheduling here and I I wanted to ask you we just we mentioned before that the
32:07
public comment period has ended here and that ends one chapter of this rescheduling process first let's just
32:14
let me ask if the The Changing of the Guard here like if if you know President
32:19
Biden bowing out if if that has any effect on the timeline and then let's just talk about that timeline what are
32:26
we looking at here in ter terms of what's next and then how long this rescheduling limbo period we're in how
32:33
long might this stretch out well this uh this is absolutely moving at an expedited pace so this is what uh
32:40
President Biden called on uh both the Department of Health and Human Services and Department of Justice to do in
32:46
October of 2022 uh and it has absolutely uh moved very very quickly uh compared
32:53
to to others um to other efforts um but let me tell on the politics real quick
32:59
and then I'll I'll get back to the the process the politics of this election still dictate that uh the Democrats in
33:06
this particular Administration get this final rule done before the election and
33:12
I think that this that cannabis is going is a big issue it may not be the biggest
33:17
issue in fact it is not the biggest issue that they're going to run on but it is a big one I also think that it's a bit of a a sweeper issue uh in that
33:25
they're going to be able to to use it very very effective um in November so uh if they are able to
33:32
get it done um prior and by done I mean issuance of final rule before November I
33:39
I think this can be very helpful uh and I am as we have discussed previously a betting man I do have the over under set
33:46
on this one at October one okay and I'm personally taking the over on that one but that's the politics the process of
33:52
this uh could 100% get gummed up gummed up and delayed we are very much uh
33:58
moving rapidly as I said uh it was excellent that they uh were able to get the public comment period closed
34:04
yesterday in the month of July so plenty of time for them to review the comments even though there are a significant
34:11
number of them 40,000 at last check I believe that is right but um just keep
34:17
in mind that many of them are going to be automated and uh they're going to be looking for Unique comments versus those
34:22
that are the automated letters that are just sent in over and over and over again ah I see okay so they're going to
34:28
be able to move through it I think with relatively good speed and uh in my mind
34:35
the question about the final rule getting done before November really hinges on whether there's an
34:40
administrative law judge review Andor hearing and if there is a law judge
34:45
review and hearing uh then that could very much slow the process up and some folks have argued that um it could be a
34:53
year plus uh if if that's the case so let's assume two different scenarios
35:00
number one is that let's assume that there isn't an alj hearing or even a review and that the final rule is
35:06
published uh at some point in October and prior to the election or even published before the end of President
35:14
Biden's term assuming that the vice president loses the Democrats lose so if that's the case and the final rule has
35:20
been published then this is going to be challenged in court and I'm going to Shell that discussion for another day
35:26
but in terms of what the new president could do if it if it is President Trump if he chooses to try to unravel this
35:33
they wouldn't be able to just keep this final rule on the Shelf so keep in mind
35:39
that the DEA actually doesn't have a time limit on how long uh they can they
35:45
they could or should take in order to issue final rule so they could potentially just sit on this put it on
35:52
the shelf and sit on it never issue the final Rule and this discussion becomes no void as a result of that but if this
36:01
comment is issued prior to the end of Biden's Administration then they don't have that ability their ability would
36:07
actually hinge on them restarting the conversation so again going back to October of 2022 president Trump could
36:14
initiate the same review that President Biden did but given the thorough scientific review that HHS did and the
36:21
fact that there would be even more state level cannabis data um that they would
36:27
be able pull from I think this would it's it's going to be very difficult to overturn uh whatever decision this
36:33
Administration makes that's one scenario the second scenario is that President
36:38
Trump uh loses and President Biden president I'm gonna keep saying
36:44
President Biden it's tough It's new this is so new this is all brand new vice president Harris wns um and of course uh
36:52
then this could stretch out longer if need be and I do think that that she would finalized the job uh at some point
37:00
during the first term of her Administration plus I think that she would engage on other H's reform
37:05
measures uh per the position that that she had in the Senate previously um so I
37:12
I personally don't think that even if president Trump had the opportunity uh to to try to unravel this or to to to
37:19
ask his two agencies to review um I I don't think he would do that and uh I I
37:25
think this is an issue that politic just doesn't make sense for them to get involved with especially knowing that
37:31
they could they could lose right um you know based on the the sound science that we know HHS has produced yeah no those
37:39
dude those are great points thanks for laying out both those scenarios because I know that these are questions that a lot of my listeners have that uh even
37:46
people in the space covering this I know that it's very murky in terms of what the timeline could be and as you said I
37:52
think you kind of laid out the different factors there pretty well um and I I agree with you I do think that the the
37:58
public support the polling of legal cannabis in the country makes it a a non-starter for the Republican side to
38:04
to Wade in on because I I think that there's a there's the risk as you said that they could lose the election and B
38:11
you know I I it's it's not only uh Democratic Americans that are you know supporting legal cannabis it's certainly
38:17
not there's there's a lot of Republicans that are enjoying it whether whether it's because they they found a quality
38:23
of life benefit like it it helps them with chronic pain or any any of of the the of of the things that could help
38:29
with or maybe it's just the revenue you know that's if for the side of of the ticket that is you know more concerned
38:35
or you know that advertises that they're concerned with like the fiscal budget and stuff like that you cannot ignore
38:41
the new Revenue that cannabis has brought to the country um I I was seeing an article the other day that just
38:46
between California uh and Michigan there's like $3 billion or something like that that those two states made so
38:53
far this year so I I think that speaks to kind of why you wouldn't want to necessarily wait into this um if you're
39:01
if you're a member of of the other side of it but I I do want to ask who would
39:06
initiate that uh judicial review that you were talking about of this you know after this public comment period is now
39:12
over if that administrative review happens who's the one that decides it because if it's the DEA and and as you
39:19
mentioned they did clarify they have they sent that letter earlier this year saying hey there's no timeline on this
39:24
if the DEA is in charge of whether or not there's a a judicial review I I have to imagine that they're going to enact
39:31
it because their actions thus far uh have not been um of a of a of an agency
39:38
that is definitely trying to move cannabis into the you know decriminalized uh status or even
39:44
reschedule it down to three which would be great but um you know I know that you
39:49
you mentioned HHS a couple of times and the justice department and and the White House I think all of them are a big part
39:55
of what's moved this rescheduling process along I for my money and this is just my personal opinion I think the DEA
40:02
is not going to you know go against their own self-interest and say that there's a substance that now they have less control over um so I I think that
40:10
they would probably gum up the works if they can here but maybe I'm wrong about that what do you think David are they
40:16
playing a role in this yeah they're they are absolutely playing a role in this and the the final uh rule that is
40:23
published will be uh the dea's decision so uh they have the ability uh of course
40:29
through this as I mentioned before this administrative law judge review Andor hearing they they have the ability to do
40:35
both um they have the ability to take as long as they would like uh on this um
40:41
and they have the ability to uh change course uh you know they have agreed thus
40:47
far uh with HHS as you know but um you know depending the administrative law
40:52
judge review Andor hearing they could potentially change their their position on this so the answer is yes that there
41:00
is a lot of power that that's still uh within the the dea's hands uh but the
41:06
the debate now is uh very much divided about what they're going to do and in
41:12
fact I was on uh the phone yesterday with a series of attorneys that have been very very involved with this uh
41:18
through the scheduling Coalition that the Cannabis industry formed uh more than a year and a half ago and um they
41:25
are really the subject matter uh experts on the legal side uh and there's
41:31
widespread disagreement about what's going to happen a lot of real real head scratching um they also were very clear
41:38
that we will know uh when there's an administrative law judge hearing or
41:43
review when it's announced and we're not going to know previously so uh you know
41:48
they have to make sure that this process is being followed to the letter of the law it has been thus far uh but
41:54
everything that's remaining in the process are things that we are going going to find out and not know in
41:59
advance for sure well hey and and if that's that's the case I'm going to take the over along with you man if if the
42:05
line is October 1st I'm taking the over on that one too unfortunately but well you you should you should take the over
42:11
and I appreciate that very much you I will send you my venmo so you can send me your money but I also I also still
42:18
believe though that the politics are as powerful as anything in this uh and while this process has not been
42:24
political in any way shape or form they have followed procedure to the letter of the law um there is no reason why this
42:30
cannot be finalized prior to the election so while I say my I'm on the over side I still believe that they're
42:37
going to get it done in October and that they use it uh you know in the weeks leading up to the election for sure and
42:42
and I hope for that as well man because as you said earlier in the discussion that would be a huge boost I think uh
42:49
for for the Democratic side and I think that you know if they would certainly love to be enjoying that come October um
42:55
and I think the rest of us would at well that would be a nice thing heading into the end of the year the holidays before
43:00
a potentially contentious election uh to just celebrate the fact that Canabis is going to be rescheduled which I know
43:07
that there are people out there who they feel like that re moving it down to schedule 3 is not enough and and I agree
43:13
with that but it's a crucial step on the road to getting it lower than that uh hopefully you know just taking off the
43:20
scheduled or the controlled substances list all together you know that that sort of thing would be would be amazing
43:25
but this step even though it might seem like it's not enough it it is a big step and and David I really appreciate you
43:32
coming on and just kind of spelling out for us the different angles here and kind of what we could be seeing in in
43:38
the next few months well you're great to have me I always appreciate being on with you uh thank you so much and uh
43:44
let's let's all stay tuned over the next few months it's going to be a really interesting time as always uh in the
43:49
Cannabis reform space and there you have it listener I want to thank one more time my guest David Culver senior vice
43:56
president of public affairs at the US cannabis Council they are doing really important work at the uscc I I've talked
44:03
about them before not just in my conversations with David but you know ever since that I had the chance to you
44:09
know first get connected with him I've really enjoyed our conversations and I just can't say enough about the good
44:15
work that uscc is doing other big Industries in this country whether we're
44:21
talking about energy Pharmaceuticals food Alcohol Tobacco Firearms go down on
44:27
the list Tech any major industries that are bringing in billions a year they have a presence on Capitol Hill and they
44:34
do that to maintain relationships with lawmakers and try to nudge or at least
44:40
preserve their self-interest the interest of the industry at large and cannabis has needed an advocate like
44:46
this for years for decades ever since the prohibition started let's say and now that is exactly what uscc is doing
44:54
so if you want to find out their policy priorities you can head to
45:04
usc.edu of cannabis and there's an article out just yesterday from when I'm recording this it came out July 22nd
45:11
Monday and it's a headlined report finds rescheduling cannabis would create over
45:17
50,000 new jobs this article comes from the marijuana Herold you know I love the work they do and Anthony Martinelli is
45:24
the author specifically he's always always on the good Scoops I love the work that he does the article goes on it
45:30
says that these creation of 50,000 new jobs would be by 2030 if cannabis is
45:36
rescheduled as proposed by HHS the justice department and the DEA this
45:42
comes from a report titled the economic impact of cannabis scheduling reform on small and minority-owned businesses
45:48
commissioned by the minority cannabis Business Association the mcba and conducted by Whitney economics the
45:53
report was posted as a public comment to the DEA yesterday they say today in the article
45:59
which again as I mentioned with David was the deadline for doing so I was able to get my comment in yesterday I will
46:06
link to it on the show socials once I get word that it's been approved that's part of the process when you leave that
46:13
I hope you were able to get it in and get your support on the record the mcba surveyed 206 marijuana licenses across
46:20
32 states on covering Trends within the industry that they say are concerning only 27% of respondents reported
46:26
profitability while 41% were breaking even and 36% were operating at a loss
46:33
now 41% is pretty high for just breaking even and that 27% profitable that's
46:39
definitely concerning you're talking about a quarter of the entirety of the marijuana industry that is reporting
46:45
that they're not yet profitable I think the breaking even is probably a lot of early businesses early starters which we
46:51
know there are a lot of those in Illinois just getting their licenses just getting their operations up and running and these new States like Ohio
46:58
that's just now getting those licenses out it's going to be a while before those stores get built and before the
47:05
product gets rolled out and before their operations are up and running so myself I'm not overly concerned but it is
47:12
something worth watching this this percentage breakdown of which businesses are profitable and which ones operate at
47:18
a loss but as David and I were kind of talking about and alluding to once this rescheduling if it does go through and
47:24
when it does go through the impact it's going to have on the Cannabis industry overall is going to be enormous this
47:30
article goes on to say that this report found exactly that financial and tax issues were identified as major economic
47:37
challenges by over 80% of the businesses rescheduling quote would lead to
47:43
substantial tax savings and increased profitability for marijuana businesses including small and minority owned
47:49
businesses without the tax reform that rescheduling would bring many small and minority-owned marijuana licenses will
47:55
go out of business causing major economic losses and unemployment this is again according to that mcba report I've
48:03
linked that article below you can read the rest of it I always encourage you to follow along and check those out uh any
48:08
article that I bring up I always Link in the description notes and send a text down there also linked in those notes
48:14
let me know what you thought about that story do you expect that rescheduling is going to happen if it does do you
48:19
believe that 50,000 jobs number by 2030 do you think it's going to be more than that are you taking the over like David
48:26
is and I am as well in terms of this timeline October 1st being that line we
48:31
will be watching it'll be very interesting to see this process play out uh with these curveballs that we've all
48:37
been thrown over the last few weeks and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how it all plays out I'm sure you are
48:43
too and I'll be bringing it to you here on the Cannabis man podcast follow the show on the socials and be sure to leave
48:49
a rating or a review support the show through patreon via the link all of that you can find at the link in the
48:55
description notes including that text me link let me know what you thought about this and any other episodes of the
49:01
Cannabis man podcast I'll be back next week [Music]
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bye-bye cannabis man is 100% originally crafted by myself Don kleppen original
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